Interviews : Demons and Wizards

So we all have to start somewhere, and I got a good one for my first ever phone interview. Jon Schaffer is well known for his work with Iced Earth over the years, and recently his collaboration with Blind Guardian lead singer Hansi Kursch has yielded two solid albums of power metal from their project Demons and Wizards. I talked with Jon on a Friday afternoon about the new Demons and Wizards album "Touched by the Crimson King", Iced Earth, and various other topics. Let me say right off, Jon was more than decent with me even though I was being a slobbering fan-boy tool most of the time, AND I got my facts wrong. So thanks Jon for going easy on me, laughing at my incredibly lame jokes, easily fielding the softballs I tossed up and not charging the mound, bat in hand!

Hey first of all I just want to say that it's a real pleasure to talk to you because I've been a fan since, oh, '91 or so, back in my college days when I first picked up an Iced Earth tape in Vinyl Fever in Tallahassee and I was an instant fan. (Now wipe the drool off your chin, fan-boy!)

Wow, that's awesome dude! Long time!

Yeah I've followed you guys around pretty much from then on; it's been a wild ride, I can't believe it's been almost 15 years.

Yeah it's uh... (laughs) it is I mean, believe me it's you know, it's been 15 years since the first album came out over in Europe and uh, I mean 20 years ago this past January when I started the band so, it's yeah...

Unbelievable.

I can't believe we're still out there swinging.

Time flies when you're having fun! (Ugh, cliche #1!)

I guess, man.

Okay, well, how'd did that mini tour of Europe go that you guys just got back from (this was me misreading the Demons and Wizards web site, looking at tour dates from 2000... Jon was nice enough to not call me an idiot!)

We actually haven't been on tour.

Oh you haven't yet? (It's not sinking in with me yet that I'm way off target...)

Uh-uh. I mean, I did the tour for the Glorious Burden... so... as far as the Demons and Wizards thing, we're not going to be touring for this until early next year, and if we do it's only going to be some special shows.

Right... (I finally got a clue and moved on!) You ever consider doing ProgPower down here in Atlanta?

Well yeah, you know, I've talked to Glenn a few times (Glenn Harveston, promoter of ProgPower USA) and it's just one of those things, it's a scheduling thing, right now with the Demons album coming out, and Hansi already in pre-production for the next Blind Guardian record, and I'm going to start the writing process for the next Iced Earth next week. We knew we weren't going to be able to tour on this album, I mean we knew that back in November when we started recording it, no way was that going to happen. We're talking about doing it, depending on how our schedules are working, around next spring, early 2006, I mean, doing half a dozen states, main markets, possibly recording a live album in New York or something... so that's what we're talking about now.

That'd be great, I'd love to hear what it sounds like live. Let's see, how's your health? Is your back holding up okay?

It is doing better now, I had another... my third procedure in November, in the last two years, it's been a pretty frustrating period actually. I am feeling better, I think that we have finally nailed the problem and now it's a matter of maintaining the physical therapy and doing the muscle building that I need to do around that area, which takes special exercises so that the back is protected better by the muscles of the lining of the spine... it's been a real problem. My sister now is going through the same thing, she's actually far worse and I'm really worried about her. She just had her third operation yesterday, and in the last three months things are not going well, she's got an infection running in her back, it's not good. Unfortunately, we come from a family of bad backs, so...

It's amazing that one little piece of your body can knock you out of commission.

Yeah, especially that piece. It's just, it's really unbelievable how much we rely on our spine and how when one part of it is out of whack, it can really mess you up.

Sorry to hear about your sister, I certainly hope she gets better, that's a real bummer. Well uh, let's see, you guys charted #27 in Europe, in Germany right? With Demons and Wizards? (Again, I was getting the info off the Demons and Wizards web site, which I've already proven my inability to read, so... naturally I got this wrong, too! Sorry Jon!)

Actually, I'm not sure, I thought it would have been higher than that. Is that a current listing, or is that where it started at?

That's just a little news snippet that was on the Demons and Wizards web site, I'm not sure brcause I didn't get a chance to check it out all the way... (yeah I'm 0 for 2 so far!) Germans certainly have an appreciation, (and) it certainly helps that Hansi's in the band.

Well, Iced Earth is pretty damn big in Germany.

Well, they love quality metal there.

Yeah they do. We've been going there for years and years, I'm just surprised if it only charted at 27, I mean Iced Earth and Blind Guardian, we chart in the top 10... the first Demons album charted at like 17 or 12 or something like that, but whatever, it's cool.

Yeah just listening to the new one, it seems like Hansi's voice on this... I mean I know he's being backed up by other singers, but his vocals on this just sound HUGE.

Well he's always been a singer that I think is huge, and larger than life; a lot of what people don't understand is that it's what the music is doing and how... one of the things that Hansi... maybe, we've heard that a lot before, that his voice seems to sound bigger or better within Demons and Wizards, and I think that the reason for that is in Blind Guardian, there tend to be so many tracks, guitar tracks and lead guitar tracks and all this stuff going on that it's almost hard to focus in on the vocals sometimes. That's probably what I think people hear, I think... I love Hansi's voice, I think it should be the dominant part, when he's singing it should be the main focus, I don't see the need to have you know 20 lead guitar tracks going on around it.

Right, plus a full orchestra going off in the back ground. His voice is really capable of so many different feels, moods, and expressions. When you're writing the music for Demons and Wizards, when you get the vocal tracks back from him, does he ever surprise with what direction he's gone?

Well, yeah almost always because he... and that's the reason I send the pieces of music that I do because he has a way different way of writing vocal melodies than I do, and that's one of the things that makes Demons and Wizards different from Iced Earth; if I was writing the vocal melodies, or the lyrics then it would sound like Iced Earth with another singer. The stuff that I send to Hansi are pieces of music that I didn't have vocal ideas for... and that's why they were sent to him, that's the kind of stuff that I co-write. I mean, yeah, I guess I'm always surprised because he has a completely different way of approaching vocal melodies than I do, so yeah... it's cool hearing it... especially after he's layered, you know... cause Hansi will do... he'll track himself many times, he'll do the harmonies and then the octaves of the harmonies, and then back all that and do it in stereo pairs and it's a whole army of Hansi's and it's really cool.

I just saw Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and they used one guy to be all the Umpa-Lumpas. (Totally freaking irrelevant... d'oh!). You're rhythm guitar playing is really tight on this album, and it sounds like the bass player and guitar player know each other pretty well. (Oh that was a sad attempt at humor, oh man...) Eh, I'm kidding, I know you played both parts... is it a challenge to come up with bass lines to fit it, or can you switch from guitar player to bass player without any trouble?

No it's never been any trouble man. I've always been a fan of the bass guitar and hell I've played many of the bass lines on the Iced Earth albums and people just didn't know it... I played bass on almost every Iced Earth album.

Actually I always suspected that, because the bass was always so tight with the guitar it's like, no way that couldn't be one person.

It always depends on the part and depending who was in the band at the time and struggling with it, it was just easier for me to do it and knock it out. I really enjoy playing bass, it's a fun thing. Fortunately, I never have problems coming up with parts.

No you don't (and here I whip out my Butthead laugh...) I really like what's his name, Ruben Drake? His fretless bass work on "Love's Tragedy Torn Asunder" is cool and your acoustic guitar playing is like speed metal acoustic.

Ah well thank you, Ruben's awesome. I tell you man, in all the years, he is the most killer bass player I've ever played with, or recorded with. He also played the bass on "The Immigrant Song" and I think he ended up doing the bass on "Beneath The Waves".

Speaking of "The Immigrant Song", that's one of the best cover versions of that song I've heard... there's something about the way you guys recorded it, played it, it's a lot punchier... well, it's got a lot more balls than any of the other versions I've heard, or even the original.

I tell ya, we... eh... I don't know man, I've never been a huge Zeppelin fan, I did always liked that song and when Hansi said, "What about Zeppelin?" when we were discussing doing covers and I said there's only one song that I'd really do. I didn't expect it to come out like it did, I mean... you know, I never do cover tunes because cover tunes are what they are, generally, typically they're a bonus track of some kind. This one came out so good, and we were both so happy with it, I said, man let's just put this as a permanent fixture on "Touched by the Crimson King", that way you know everybody will hear it for as long as that albums in print, that songs going to be on there. I mean his voice on it is really spooky, or haunting almost. The groove is... Bobby laid down a massive groove, Ruben kicked ass on the bass, I mean he did it in one take. I think it came out great for a cover tune.

Bobby can really batter the hell out of his drum kit, I mean he sounds really good on this album. I have a feeling you lay out some of the drum parts before hand, but his playing seems to add something to the whole vibe of Demons and Wizards.

Oh it does definitely. Just to... Bobby is the best drummer I've ever played with in my entire life, I mean no kidding. You know before that, it was Mark Prater, who's a master in his own right, I mean he's... but Mark isn't a metal drummer, he's good enough where he can play everything. Bobby has Mark's groove and sense of rhythm and timing, but he's a metal drummer. I'm really looking forward to recording the next Iced Earth with him, you know it's just such a pleasure to play with a guy who's that solid, has that much integrity, works as hard as he does... I mean, Bobby's the man. He's just awesome.

That's going to be really cool to hear him playing with Iced Earth, that'll be a real treat.

Yeah definitely.

Okay so of the two I have to say the Blind is cooler than Iced Guardian, but I don't know, I flip back and forth on that one! Still, Blind Earth, that's a brilliant band name.

Yeah, it probably is (chuckles at yet ANOTHER of my lame jokes) That's always been a joke. I think it was "Iced Guardian Storm Troopers of the Blind Earth", that goes back to the first tour we did together back in 1990, and then in 1992 we toured Europe to a bunch of sold out shows, and it was a way of describing our family, you know. The whole Iced Earth/Blind Guardian... you know, my Mom calls Hansi her German son and my Mom is his American Mom... we're real close. We're already planning our kids weddings, that's how close we are. I just had a baby girl about 4 and a half months ago...

Oh, congratulations!

Thank you, yeah it's awesome, it's the best thing ever. And Hansi has a son, let's see... Jonas is like, 3 or four years old now... yeah, we're trying to hitch them up.

Okay, that's pretty cool. Okay, just one or two more, how about that? I recognize the three song mini-suite, from the Dark Tower stuff, and I know Hansi wrote a bunch of this, but I also recognized of course the "Wizard of Oz", and "The Picture of Dorian Grey"... do you guys share similar literary interests?

Yeah, I think so; my interest is really... where Hansi is more into fantasy and fiction, I'm into history. I haven't read any Stephen King books in a long time, it's been years, but... you know, I do appreciate that stuff, I certainly have read it. I mean, Hansi's been trying to get me to read the Lord of the Rings for about 15 years now, and I just can't... for some reason, it just doesn't do it for me. But if you give me a big ass book on... like the biography of Thomas Jefferson, I'm all over it, but you put Lord of the Rings in front of me and I'm sleeping. It's very strange... people are like, man that's weird, you're a metal guy. A lot of the stuff I've written over the years, it's fantasy, it's horror, it's science fiction, it's historical, all kinds of stuff, but you know I'm into history and I have been since I was a little kid.

It's a shame that Shelby Foote died recently, I was disappointed that he had to leave us (what am I, a freaking funeral home director? Sheesh!)

Yeah, he was great... he was a hell of an author. I've read several of his books.

Yep, he was quite good; my Dad was a big fan of his and turned me on to it in turn. I got the Iced Earth DVD in the package, and unlike some of the reviews that I read, I kind of liked the video for Gettysburg? I didn't really have a problem with watching it, I don't know what some people were bitching about.

Well it's you know, it's something that... it's not something people really expected. It's definitely not for everybody and I'm aware of that; that's why we didn't try to candy coat it into something it's not. I mean it is what it is, the whole point of the thing was to deliver the surround sound version of the epic, and it sort of snowballed into, "Why don't we create something that the people can watch while they're listening to it in surround sound," and then it was "Hey what about doing a battle field tour, and blah blah blah," it turned into a bigger project and it's not for everybody. I have to say that this DVD is for intelligent people, who are into history, and who are patriotic, who feel like this kind of thing matters. You know, it's also for people who are into that song, I mean maybe you don't have to be a gigantic patriot buff, but if you like the song "Gettysburg", and you have a home theater system, that's really the way to hear it.

Oh yeah, cause everything rolls around you.

Yeah, it's really cool. I mean, I knew people weren't going to get it, and that's okay it never stopped me before. I'd say there are a certain element of people out there that this is over their head, you know, if it's not... if it's anything other than the norm...

Right, there were no naked chicks! what's up the that?

If it's not like, us performing, or being morons, or drunken idiots, it's not cool. Those kind of fans I don't really care if they get it or not; those aren't people I'd want to spend any time with.

Yeah, the first thing I though was, "Cool, it's like Ken Burns," and that was that. But what can I say, I like Ken Burns.

Yeah I mean, to me, it's been... people are using it to teach with. There's a lot of cops and lot of military like that love it, and that means a hell of a lot more to me then if some ignorant ass metal head doesn't get it.

I hear man, I do.

I really don't care, so...

Well Jon, I tell you what, I'll let you go, I think I've got enough to do an interview here, so I really appreciate you taking the time out to give us a call, and it's been a real pleasure to talk with ya.

Yeah you too man, you take care of yourself, and if we're ever around, why don't you come up and introduce yourself?

I certainly will. Well, now this means that I have to go and cut the grass, so I wish this would go on forever.

Okay, take care dude.

Okay, so maybe it didn't go all that bad, even though it was somewhat of a train wreck at first. Thanks to SPV for the CD and stuff, and thanks especially to Jon Schaffer for the interview.